Pathetic.

[qcontinuum]

So this is his latest obsession. He stages a revolution in the Continuum, wins it, has a child, and he's *still* completely besotted with ridiculous mortals, to the point where he's got nothing better to do than send them letters. Using this ludicrously primitive network, no less.

If you're going to play at being a mortal, do it. Immerse yourself in it. Don't take to yourself the privileges of omnipotence and yet obsess over communicating with mortals. I can't believe how absurd he is. And talking to them as if they could actually give him insight? Whining endlessly about his problems with the child? (Which, frankly, don't surprise me. The child is spoiled rotten. I might have expected Q to have no concept of discipline.)

How completely ridiculous. Also, completely expected. I knew he'd be up to something stupid, although I boggle at quite how stupid.

Comments

Wow. This is gonna get me in so much trouble...

[wes-crusher.livejournal.com]

but after the week I'm having, it can't get any worse.

Do you guys just not have a concept of "Live and let live."?

Does omnipotence mean that you can't understand that some people like to do things in a certain way, and others don't care for those methods? Wasn't that what half your war was about?

You keep looking down on humanity, and mortal races in general - but we can look at another human and say "Well, he lives his life differently from mine, but its not hurting him, its just different." and its not considered a -good- thing to be set in our ways and unable to accept differences.

WE had wars about that centuries ago, and learned our lesson.

Oh, stop quivering in your boots. I don't touch Travellers.

[qcontinuum.livejournal.com]

I don't look down on all mortals. They have their uses. Nor do I have a problem with Q who want to enjoy what mortal societies can offer.

What I have a problem with is being openly and blatantly a Q and still interacting with mortals as if they were your friends. We aren't on the same level. The power differential cannot help but corrupt. I will admit that as lesser species go humans are rather good at being able to reject omnipotent beings, but how pathetic do you have to be to pine after a species that has repeatedly rejected you? Without doing something about it, such as taking a completely different mortal form and opening interactions with them without revealing who and what you are?

He has better things to do and he still does this. When he was an outcast more than half the time and bored out of his mind the rest of it, I could understand why he'd engage in such an immature pastime. But this is ridiculous.

I didn't say in trouble with you.

[wes-crusher.livejournal.com]

I've got this mentor who has been appearing to comment lately and asking me what I've learned - and I am not certain that he won't decide to give me a long lecture about associating with Q (plural). I think he thinks you guys are immature and violent.

Well, whatever.

[qcontinuum.livejournal.com]

As if we haven't heard that one before.

They had all better wake up. We've been here longer than most of them and we're not likely to go away. They still have to deal with us; hiding and pretending we're not there is completely useless.

I wouldn't exactly call it that.

[kathrynjaneway.livejournal.com]

I really don't want to get involved in your problems with Q (I remember all too well what happened the last time I was dragged into Continuum affairs against my will. And the time before that as well). However, I really feel you're not being fair to Q. Yes, he can be quite irritating at times. And yes, he has his own way of doing things which doesn't necessarily correspond with anyone else's views of what is appropriate. However, he still manages to do just fine. His success at achieving change in the Continuum, his love for and devotion to his child (and his willingness to be there for him, which entails much sacrifice on his part--a sacrifice you were unwilling or unable to make until now) speaks volumes. I would hardly call him stupid or pathetic.

And for all your talk about 'immersing yourself' in being a mortal, you clearly haven't learned very much from the experience if you scoff at the idea of consorting with them and 'talking to them as if they could actually give him insight.' Q has clearly learned something about basic friendship that continues to elude you.

You have no idea what's going on.

[qcontinuum.livejournal.com]

As usual, he's managed to win everyone over to his side of the story before I've managed to get a word in.

Love and devotion? Try crushing possessiveness. When he got 500 years of raising the child alone he got exactly what he wanted and what he'd been pushing me for the whole time the child has been alive. He didn't like it when he finally got it? Not my fault. If he'd allowed me in when I theoretically had equal access to the child, things might have been different, but in billions of years no one has ever been able to make him compromise on anything he cares about. I would have met him halfway. He wanted it all. I had no choice-- I would not stand by and rubberstamp the decisions that were destroying our child, reshaping him into the worst of both of us.

And they have never forgiven me for bringing your kind into the Continuum and arming them with guns that could kill Q. I'm not sure if I ever made this clear or not, but the weapons we had originally would never have worked in mortal hands. I altered them so your crew could use them, and you would think I had strapped transgenic weapons to field mice. They know it was my actions that won the war, but I won by terrorizing and demoralizing the opposite side completely. You people are virtually *invisible* in the Continuum; how do you think your helmsman managed to sneak up on a powerful ancient Q and draw weapons on him? And there are quadrillions upon quadrillions of mortals, and less than a thousand Q. They were horrified with what I did-- even my own "side". They embraced the human-raised girl who shot down six Q in combat, more than anyone else's kill ratio, they embraced him and the war would never have started if not for him, they even forgave the inventor of the original weapon (posthumously; ironically he committed suicide after the first firefight broke out.) But me, they will not forgive. Because I gave the power to kill Q to mortals. Even though none of you ended up actually using it.

And yet they accept him. Though he embraces mortals to the point where he'd have created a half-mortal child if you'd agreed. He would have given you the power to kill his kind in a moment if he had any grasp of tactics, which he doesn't; I gave you the weapons because he trusted you. Does that help? No, of course not. He's the brave hero and I am the outcast, after I was a respectable citizen for billions of years and he was a chronic rebel and general screwup. I couldn't fight his ruining our child and fight the pressure of the Continuum at the same time. I ran because I had no other choice. He gave me none.

But I intend things to be different now. If they have declared that for my punishment I must take over half the child rearing responsibilities? That's perfectly fine. They will enforce that I have the child half the time and that Q won't be allowed to interfere when I do. I may still be able to save this child from Q's irresponsibility and total lack of discipline.

As for basic friendship-- come now, if you were "friends" with any other being who had the power to send you home and instead squandered it on giving you coffee beans, you would hardly call that friendship at all. Friends help one another. He cannot help you. He's omnipotent. He would end up running your life if you let him. So you refuse almost everything he offers you, which is all very well for your personal development but hardly the behavior of anyone who could be called a friend. Mortals cannot be friends with Q unless the Q put aside their powers for a time and live as mortals. I understand why he can't see this, since he's always been a pathetic loser in that regard, but why you can't see it, when you know the correct way to behave toward him and his gifts, is beyond me.

Re: You have no idea what's going on.

[kathrynjaneway.livejournal.com]

No, and I never claimed that I did. All I *do* know is what I have observed firsthand, which is admittedly very limited. But I do see certain things in Q which have convinced me he is genuinely motivated and striving to do the best he can--for his child and in other areas as well.

In terms of 'friendship', yes, friends do help one another. But only insofar as the individual wishes to be helped. Friends do not take over and solve all your problems for you, or do something solely to put you under a debt of obligation. I don't want that, and Q understands. Rather, he has made a number of small (unsolicited) overtures that can be classified as 'helping us to help ourselves.' Little things like coffee beans, and not so little things like hints to discover for ourselves a nearby M class planet where we were able to obtain some much-needed supplies. And most importantly, Q expected nothing in return--also a sign of true friendship.

Friends also share things--their thoughts, their emotions. Q has been sympathetic when listening to the problems of others and has been surprisingly forthcoming about his own feelings on several issues.

Our interactions on this LJ system (and yes, it is a rather primitive medium) have been for the most part quite pleasant. And yes, I would classify him as a friend.

Awwww, Kathy. You're gonna make me cry. *sniff*

[qcontinuum.livejournal.com]

Okay, I exaggerate. But it's delightful to know that you do, in fact, consider me a friend. I haven't actually had all that many, which, considering how long I've lived, strikes me as somewhat of an oversight on my part.

And methinks *somebody* whines too much. You have ideas about how he should be raised? *Argue* with me. If I can steamroller you then I'm obviously right. You've been a member of the Continuum *how* many billions of years and you don't know how it works? As for being ostracized by the Continuum, waah waah waah. I don't recall a certain someone who was supposed to be my *best friend* lifting a finger to stop me from being TURNED INTO A MORTAL. You expect me to defend you now? Yes, people need to get over it, but they're not going to if you RUN AWAY. What a wuss. I never ran away. Okay, I got kicked out a lot, but not by *my* choice.

Re: Awwww, Kathy. You're gonna make me cry. *sniff*

[kathrynjaneway.livejournal.com]

But it's delightful to know that you do, in fact, consider me a friend.

Well, you know me--I've never been one to mince words when it comes to stating something I believe. And I really do think you've made some important strides in the past [insert time frame of choice; temporal mechanics gives me a headache].

You have ideas about how he should be raised? *Argue* with me. If I can steamroller you then I'm obviously right.

Oh, Q, raising a child is not a contest to be won! Instead of trying to 'steamroll' each other to prove you were right, what the two of you should be doing is trying to find some common ground, some way in which you can work together for the best interests of your child. Because when all is said and done, don't you *both* want the best for him?

*Everything* is a contest in the Q Continuum.

[qcontinuum.livejournal.com]

Oh, Q, raising a child is not a contest to be won!

Well, um, yes, yes, actually, it is.

That's how we work. We argue with each other until we're bored with arguing and then we can compromise. If a Q backs down and tries to compromise before that point the other Q will see that as a weakness and push their point forward. You humans call it "give them an inch and they'll take a mile."

Every time we've argued about how to raise the child, she backs down long before she's convinced me of any of her points. Therefore, she doesn't believe in them as strongly as I believe in my points. Therefore, I should win. Since we more or less have access to all the same information and since there's a huge supply of it, we consider passion about an opinion to be the only metric of who's right when there's a disagreement.

Instead of trying to 'steamroll' each other to prove you were right, what the two of you should be doing is trying to find some common ground, some way in which you can work together for the best interests of your child. Because when all is said and done, don't you *both* want the best for him?

Theoretically, yes. She thinks that by being downright abusive to the poor thing in the name of "discipline" she'll prevent him from committing most of my excesses. Why that would be so terrible as to justify her behavior, I don't know, and she can't convince me of it BECAUSE SHE KEEPS BACKING DOWN. If she doesn't have enough passion in her convictions to argue with me, why should I believe she has anything valid to say? Just because she wants what's best for him doesn't mean she has any idea what that is. I mean, I want what's best for him and I have no idea what that is, so why would she have any more clue than I do? She's an expert on mortal warfare and I'm an expert on dissent, rebellion and trickery; neither of us know much about how mortals raise kids, but my expertise seems to be a bit closer to it than hers is. And she's being mean to the poor kid. I mean, I'm quite capable of being a fairly nasty customer myself, and I didn't get a rep as a demon or a god of lies and darkness on several thousand planets for nothing, but I can't see how she can be so cruel to her own child.

Oh, for...

[qcontinuum.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'm the bad guy, aren't I? "I can't see how she can be so cruel to her own child." You know perfectly well that when you say things like that to humans you conjure up visions of bread and water and coat hangers.

I do not abuse the child. I tell him "no", a concept you apparently have trouble with.

You see, Captain, Q apparently thinks that the appropriate way to train a child is to let him do more or less anything he wants and then clean up his messes afterward. Since this is what the Continuum did with *him* for most of his existence I can see why he believes this, but he was never actually a *child* and it wasn't the right thing to do anyway. *I* believe children need limits, particularly immortal, omnipotent ones who'd *have* no limits if their parents didn't impose any. I believe that punishment should be consistent and that letting something go three thousand times and then turning the child into a flea and keeping him that way for a week on the three thousand and first is a completely ridiculous way to teach a child right from wrong. Not that Q's grasp of right and wrong has ever been all that solid, and I think he lets the child get away with so much because he's vicariously enjoying the chaos the child creates.

I do feel passionately about my beliefs. What Q is overlooking in his description of how negotiations are *supposed* to go in the Continuum is that this has never, ever worked with him. He simply doesn't compromise. At all. The only time he ever has was after we turned him mortal for a day up until Quinn's death, and since winning the war he's been even more insufferable. I *can't* argue him into submission; the child would be an adult before he backed down. The Continuum can override him and ignore the fact that he won't agree if a majority decide otherwise, but in any interaction one-on-one with another Q, he wins, and I can't get the Continuum to back me up because they hate me now. And I can't apply the kind of consistent discipline and limits I think an omnipotent child desperately needs with his other parent undermining me at every turn.

Perhaps this custody sharing arrangement will work. I certainly hope so, since we can't seem to agree at all on how to raise the child together.

Re: *Everything* is a contest in the Q Continuum.

[kathrynjaneway.livejournal.com]

Well, apparently your method works quite well for the Continuum, though as a 'limited' Human I marvel that you ever manage to get anything done and aren't constantly in a state of Civil War.

But, since having a child was a new and radical departure from the Q way of doing things up to now, don't you think perhaps it might be wise to consider trying new methods of dealing with him, and with each other as far as his welfare is concerned?

Re: *Everything* is a contest in the Q Continuum.

[qcontinuum.livejournal.com]

Well, apparently your method works quite well for the Continuum, though as a 'limited' Human I marvel that you ever manage to get anything done and aren't constantly in a state of Civil War.

I'll admit it worked much better before we invented a means of killing each other one-on-one.

But, since having a child was a new and radical departure from the Q way of doing things up to now, don't you think perhaps it might be wise to consider trying new methods of dealing with him, and with each other as far as his welfare is concerned?

We *do* try new methods of dealing with him. I mean, we have to. I may have mentioned that Q instinct (well, not literally instinct, we don't *have* any literal instincts, but you know what I mean) is to psychologically attack any Q that demonstrates weakness or lack of self-control. When everyone is even in their level of abilities that works, but we found out with Amanda that it doesn't work with new Q, so we were able to *mostly* avoid making that mistake with q. We're more or less inventing the concept of child rearing in the Continuum from scratch. Even Amanda was far more advanced when she joined us than q is.

As far as dealing with each other... you say it like it's so easy. We've had a particular means of interacting with each other for longer than your species has existed. And besides, she's completely wrong. Imposing mortal military-style discipline on a Q is either going to create a creature with no ability to engage in independent thought, which will destroy him as a Q, or it'll create a creature who takes the first chance to rebel as soon as he's old enough to stand up against us, and I don't want to see the Continuum do to *him* what it did to me to keep me in line. Or do what it did to Amanda's parents. He has to be allowed to make his own mistakes and *understand* why they're a bad idea. And I do so say no to him.

Re: *Everything* is a contest in the Q Continuum.

[kathrynjaneway.livejournal.com]

And besides, she's completely wrong

It's absolutist statements like this that I really can't see being helpful. Especially as you contradict yourself later on by pointing out that you *do* say no to your son, as Q insists is necessary.

Imposing mortal military-style discipline on a Q is either going to create a creature with no ability to engage in independent thought, which will destroy him as a Q, or it'll create a creature who takes the first chance to rebel as soon as he's old enough to stand up against us

Not necessarily. Again, wasn't your purpose in having a child to create a new kind of Q that hadn't existed before? Perhaps you will manage to raise him to be a self-disciplined being, based on the example and patterns you've set for him. That *both* of you have set for him. It doesn't have to be an 'all or nothing' proposition, that either he's an automaton with no mind of his own or else an out-of-control rebel. Even for the Continuum, there has got to be a happy medium.

My mother uses to say that raising a child was like handling a wind-up toy. You can prepare him and point him in the direction you wish him to go, but where he actually ends up is ultimately his choice. But that doesn't mean that all the preparation is futile. You just have to hope you've given him a solid enough foundation that when he *can* make his own decisions, he makes them wisely.